When you're no longer willing to shrink to fit a system that doesn't reflect your values, what happens next? In this bold and timely conversation, strategist and brand builder Lesley Pinckney shares how she walked away from corporate success to build something aligned with her truth. From identity and authenticity to mental fitness and daily rituals, this episode unpacks the neuroscience, pressure, and power behind real leadership reinvention.
00:00 – The moment you realize: the system wasn’t built for you
02:00 – Lesley’s leadership trajectory and values shift
06:00 – From contributor to manager: identity tension
10:00 – Brain–heart–gut coherence and internal signals
13:00 – What happens when you're not authentic
15:00 – How Lesley defines alignment and internal clarity
17:00 – Dealing with uncertainty as a founder
18:00 – Tools: therapy, business coach, Positive Intelligence
20:00 – Calendar systems for mental focus
23:00 – Rapid fire: books, practices, and authenticity myths
25:00 – What authenticity isn’t—it’s not harshness
27:00 – Final insights and Claire’s wrap-up
What You’ll Learn:
Follow Claire on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/clairehayek/
Follow Lesley on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lesley-pinckney/
🎓 Want to train your brain for resilience and high performance?
Join Claire’s free Mental Fitness Masterclass here:👉 https://go.clairehayek.com/mental-fitness-masterclass
📩 For free resources, upcoming masterclasses, or to join our next live webinar—click here:👉 https://linktr.ee/clairehayek
📢 Subscribe to The NeuroLeadership Edge Podcast for brain-based strategies to lead with clarity, courage, and impact.
The System Wasn’t Built for Me — So I Built My Own
Claire Hayek: [00:00:00] There comes a moment in every leader's career when you look around and realize, this place isn't built for me anymore. Not because you're not good enough, but because the system doesn't match who you've become. Today's episode is about what happens when you stop forcing yourself to fit and start building something that actually aligns with your values.
I'm talking to someone who made that decision at the height of her career and didn't look back by the end of this episode, you'll know how to recognize when you've outgrown a role or a system, why authenticity isn't optional anymore. How to navigate uncertainty without losing yourself. And why the next chapter of your career has to match your value, so stick around this conversation.
Hits home [00:01:00] for a lot of us. A lot of people are actually waiting for it, so I'm really excited to to get started on it.
Claire Hayek: Welcome to the NeuroLeadership Edge Brain Science for bold leaders ready to master their mind and own their voice. I'm your host, Claire Hayek, NeuroLeadership expert x engineer.
Lifelong Musician and the founder of Mind, soul Purpose team building. My guest today is Leslie Pinkney, founder of The Big Idea Catalyst. She's a strategist and builder who has transformed brands from the insight out from essence.com to Fortune 500 Giants like Target Nissan. Twitter and US Bank. She's known for creating teams where people feel motivated, supported, and challenged to think bigger after years in [00:02:00] leadership roles across media, tech, and experiential.
Marketing. Leslie stepped away from corporate America and built her own company on her terms in a way that reflects her values. She brings honesty, experience, and a very real point of view on leadership identity and the future of work. Leslie, welcome. Wow, thank you. What an amazing introduction. Thank you.
Well, you know, your, your experience speaks for itself. I'm just introducing you, so congratulations on all the above. It's really exciting to have you with us. I think a lot of our listeners are excited about this one because a lot of us, you know, sometimes feel that way when we get. To a certain level in our career and, you know, we're pretty much outgrown the space we're at.
Right. So, without further ado, let's dive right in. Sure. [00:03:00] You've spent, Leslie, you, you pretty much spent your career stepping into roles where you were the first, first to build, first to lead, first to create something from scratch. Take me to that moment when you knew that the system you were in.
No longer. Fit. It was just not fitting. What really
Lesley Pinckney: changed for you? Oh my goodness. I, I think, one of the first sort of inclinations that I sort of stumbled upon as I became a manager was that, and you hear this a lot, the skills that get you to management are not the skills that make you a good manager.
Um, and you know, my personal brand before I became a manager was, I was the first, the fastest, the, like, the first to get it done. I outworked everybody first in the office last to leave, like that kind of vibe. Um, and then when I moved over to management, I really had to fight against the [00:04:00] desire and the control that you have when you're just a sole contributor in an organization.
Right? And so. That to me was the beginning of like, oh, huh, you know, I was great at being this and it got me to this, but now they want me to do a whole bunch of other different things here and maybe I don't like these things as much as I like doing that. And so what I have found is, is, is that.
You know, when you're early in your career, you're actually a lot closer to the work. You may not be closer to corporate decision making, but you're closer to the work. And as someone who has been a builder, that was a really hard thing for me to accept was, is that the higher I got, the further I was away from the actual work.
You know, like if you work in an agency. You're not actually pleasing clients. You're setting strategy, you're managing [00:05:00] people, you're doing business development. You are, cleaning up other decks, but you're not actually making things. You're making people better. But that's a very different thing than making things.
And so at that point, when I switched from like employee to manager, that was sort of the beginning. And also I'm like an, an iconoclast and anarchist by nature. So like the idea that I was now becoming quote unquote the man. Was also a little unsettling for me and started making me question like, well, what does this mean?
And, and where does this end? And I think those voices get louder over time in your career because I also think as things outside of your professional life change, for me it was having my daughter who's nine. Mm-hmm. You start to want to live your whole life. In all the aspects of your life, right?
I don't wanna be someone radically different at home in front of my daughter than I would [00:06:00] be at work. And I wanna make sure that the values that I live in my personal life, I can try to live in my professional life. And so, it creates kind of a perfect storm for those that are willing to take it of self-reflection that I think ultimately lead you to determine, you know, am I one of those people that's gonna get the gold watch at the end of my corporate career?
Or am I going to else? And I think for me it was, you know, I wanna try to do something else. I think, the last election changed a lot about I think, how people of color are seen in the workforce. And I wasn't. Interested in rehashing a conversation that has been put to bed by data and facts and experiences around the value of diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging in companies.
And so that was a pretty big like, oh yeah, I'm not doing that. Like, I'm not gonna [00:07:00] rehash this thing again. So maybe it's time for me to like. Build something where I'm not gonna have to rehash that or think about what opportunities 'cause it. It never starts with I'm gonna build something. Right? Of course.
Maybe I can find a perfect unicorn job that allows me to do this and do that and still pays, you know, half a million dollars a year with bonus and options. And you know, the reality is, is that that's not gonna happen. Yeah. We see, we see increasingly big corporations, which, you know, I think. 10 years ago may have been more willing to take principled stances.
They're out of the conversation completely. They have proven themselves to be, we are first and foremost focused on our bottom line, and that's their job is, whether or not that's right or wrong is a debate for another day. But you know, the CEOs of big corporations, their job is to perform for shareholders.
And so anytime you're in that system, [00:08:00] your values, no matter what they be. Are going to be bent or twisted in a way to support the goals of the place you're working at. And you can hate it, but that's the reality. And so, you know, I think there's different ways that you can tackle it. Some people are like, look, I'm gonna get my bag.
I need to support my family, and I'm okay with maybe the gap between how I would choose to run this company and how my company is being run.
Claire Hayek: Yeah, I mean, you know, it's, um, uh, that, that's a whole different conversation, I guess. But, uh, it's def it's definitely not straightforward. And, uh, we're, I mean, I would really love to solve this but I mean, it's so complex.
There's so many factors involved, and I think a lot of people, even in power positions probably feel misaligned. And like you said, you know, they're, they go against their values. It's all about decisions and what we're comfortable with, what we're able to, to endure what we're not able to endure.
And it's a personal decision, so I'm interested in your, what you did [00:09:00] and, uh, how you turned it around, because I think a lot of people. Whether, whether it's what's happening in the political landscape or any other challenge that actually shows up in our life, the minute, you know, our brain knows when we're misaligned, when things are not.
We, we talk about the three axis, the brain, the heart. And the gut, and they have to be aligned for you to be coherent, and we all have the ability to feel when somebody's off. You know, whether we feel it in our gut, whether the passion is not there that's in our heart, or whether we're stressing and being anxious about it.
It's in our brain. It's crazy. It's not. It's not drama, it's data. It's like our body's talking to us the whole time. We just have to listen. Right? Right. So, um, and, and it's basically the brain is trying to tell us, Hey, it's time to shift. And a lot of us are paralyzed by fear or Saab sabotage ourselves.
And it just, again, our brain doesn't like change. It's gonna withhold change. And so, just wanna keep us alive at that point and go, no, that's [00:10:00] kind of like too risky. Let's not do that. Stay. But a lot of us are able to, if we are coherent and we're at that level, when we're able to see things, we're able to take that next move and tell our brain it's okay.
I know you wanna keep me alive, but I got this. Um, and this is when we take that next step. Right. I mean, you've always been direct, honest and real. I know that. And, you know, I've spoken to you before and it really shines through, which is wonderful. But you also mentioned how hard it became to show up that way in certain spaces.
Um, so how did authenticity shape the way you lead and what happens when you can't bring that to the table? Like, how do you feel?
Lesley Pinckney: So, you know, I think for me, so much of my experiences professionally have been shaped by my personal identity. Obviously I'm black. If you scoop the bracelet, you can see I'm also part of the L-G-B-T-Q community.
And so. When you're young and on the playground and you're getting [00:11:00] bullied because of your race very early, the decision is been put in front of you. Are you gonna be one of the people that laughs along with the jokes made at you? Or are you gonna be one of the people that says, no, this isn't right, or, or walk away.
I'd love to sit here and be like, I was the person who was like, Nope, I'm walking away. When I was five and six and seven when these things happened, I wasn't, you know, I, I, very early on, I kind of went along to get along and it wasn't until I really got to college that I was, that I started to sort of.
See my complicitness in others' sort of behavior. And I think that was the beginning of my authentic journey because it just became obvious that if I wasn't gonna stand up for myself I wasn't gonna bring my parents to work with me every day. So I'm gonna, I was gonna need to have somebody, you know, like I either needed to do it for myself or be prepared for.
Just a lifetime of acceptance of this, right, of that dynamic. And [00:12:00] I, it just didn't seem tenable that I would live my life being complicit. Like I don't even know what that would look like. And so, you know, my earliest professional iteration of myself. Um, was very full of bravado. You know, I always had to be, try to be the smartest person in the room.
And that was an authentic representation of me, Uhhuh, um, and my skills, but not an authentic repre representation of, of who I wanted to be. And I think as I've grown in my career, my authenticity is a big part of my personal brand. One, because I think we don't do enough talking about the harder fringes and parts of life.
And I think, the fact that I have struggled in the past and I didn't graduate from Cornell after going, and, you know, I've had all these moments in my life that. People [00:13:00] who just see me on LinkedIn would never even begin to a fathom that I've experienced. And I always find that disconnect. Really interesting, that like there's this idea that if you are successful, you've never really stumbled.
Even when you were introduced, that's why you say
Claire Hayek: opposite,
Lesley Pinckney: you know?
Claire Hayek: Exactly.
Lesley Pinckney: It's still the opposite, right? Um, but we don't talk about it. Yeah. I think in business we actually have the space to talk about it more, but when I think about the honest conversations I have with my women friends around things like menopause and child rearing and the patriarchy, right?
Like there's all sorts of. Lack of authenticity in a lot of different spaces that I think prevent people from sharing their true selves. And it just, it doesn't seem to be beneficial to anyone. Like, who are we trying to keep this information from, right? Like, why not share your experience? [00:14:00] Because, you know, people may dismiss it, but usually you get at least one head nod and people are like, oh.
Either we're not so different or she sees me or, wow, I could do what she's doing because she, you know, like, yeah, those sparks of familiarity or the ability, the reflection the ability to see herself in others is so valuable. And I mean, and this is really interesting
Claire Hayek: also. Yeah. When it comes to you know, I'm gonna talk about the brain and when it comes to the brain, because when you're not yourself, this is fascinating.
Your brain is working twice as hard. Mm-hmm. That's why it's exhausting exhaust not to be yourself and when, but when you lead from who you are and not who people expect you to be, right? You make those clearer decisions. You create trust faster and people see you, people. [00:15:00] Feel it. You know, don't, you can't fool people.
You know, you can't fool, some people can't be fooled, but many of us can't. And we might not know how to put our finger on it, but we like something's off with this one, not to judge. It's just like, it's not, I don't know, I just either we're not getting along or something's off. Yeah. Yeah. So,
Lesley Pinckney: absolutely.
And I think that's, you know, so I, I think it's kind of like a, a cascade, right? Because I think people think, oh, I shouldn't make mistakes. So therefore I'm, I'm not necessarily gonna trust my gut because that might be a mistake, but like leadership, you're gonna make mistakes. Everybody makes mistakes.
Failure is part of it. Absolutely. Yeah. Failure is part of it, but I think when you are authentic to yourself, you can handle those mistakes much better. Because you know what, like. I can look in the morning every single mirror and 99.9% of the decisions that I made. Even if they were wrong, I would make them again, because they align with my personal and professional values, [00:16:00] right?
And so that even when the mistake is bad and costly, I still sleep better. Then when I make the right decision, but it doesn't feel good because it's like when I say the Right, right. Yeah. I mean, you know what I'm saying? Like, oh, absolutely. I make the right decision for, let's say the business, but it doesn't necessarily sit with my values.
I, that keeps me up at night way more than the mistakes that I've made that feel like, okay, I would have no problem defending this decision in front of my daughter. In front of my mom. Yeah. In front of my dad, you know, like. And so,
Claire Hayek: but I mean, this, this brings us to the next question. So you said something that's true for so many of us and so many leaders out there, uncertainty and anxiety are not part of daily life, you know?
Yes. So, so here's my question to you. How do you navigate that, especially after. Stepping out on your own, because I mean, you know, we're both entrepreneurs, right? Right. We both [00:17:00] have our companies we both stepped out and, you know, and decided to take on this, this big unknown thing called entrepreneurship.
Uh, with the passion driving and nothing else, and the belief that it's gonna work. We know where we're heading. But I mean, how do you deal with it? How do you deal with the uncertainty? How do you deal with the anxiety? On a day-to-day basis, anything you can share? Yeah, sure. That could help our listeners because I'm sure a lot of people now listening going, oh yeah, Tom, tell me more.
Lesley Pinckney: Right. Um, so I, I am like kind of like an old school purist in this way. You know, I have a therapist, I also have a business coach. And I also like Will live and die by the program, positive Intelligence and their app. It keeps me grounded every day. Me too. I love it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So I mean, those are the three things that I use the most because.
You know, I think with high achievers in general patience is [00:18:00] usually not a vir. It is not a strong suit of Right. We wanna be there yesterday.
Claire Hayek: Mm-hmm. And when
Lesley Pinckney: you're starting a business and when you're an entrepreneur, it's really, really easy for you to like judge yourself. And you know, this, like the judge, the saboteurs are at the ready cross.
Sabotage is so all the time it's a lot of space. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And so that, that first lesson in positive intelligence, like catching the judge has been invaluable for me.
Claire Hayek: Yeah. And
Lesley Pinckney: you know, I'd love to sit here and say that, oh, it's been, you know, all sunshine and roses. I mean, there are days where I wake up and I'm like, what have I done?
Right. You know? But then I'm like, you know what, Leslie, you got this. Like, and because I'm doing positive intelligence, I know the tools, like I do my PQ rep. I think about, you know, all of the success that I've had to date. And I talk myself off the ledge of like, well, why wouldn't I be successful? I've been successful, right.
In all these other things. And like, you know what? If I need to, like, I know how to work harder if that's, you know, like I [00:19:00] try and diagnose it and not stay in the, in the what ifs. But like. Between, you know, my personal therapist and my business coach. And then I'd say, so that's like the macro stuff on the micro stuff.
And this doesn't work for everybody, but the hardest change for me leaving corporate America and being an entrepreneur, and those of you in corporate America know this, you're a slave to your Outlook calendar. Stuff gets put on there. You just show up, you go, you show up at the meeting, you do things, you know, like you're literally an automaton If the calendar says it's where I need to be or what I need to do, that's what you do.
And so when you're an entrepreneur, well, it's the job. It's the job, right? It's the, you're not making the calls. So absolutely. It's, it's the job. But I think the difference when you're an entrepreneur is, is that you're navigating huge stretches of time. When you don't have things on your calendar.
Absolutely. That's another uncertainty that to has been. The biggest lesson for me that my [00:20:00] coach taught me, which is she was like, you need to treat your calendar the same way that you were in corporate America. Right? She's, you did not grow up as an entrepreneur. So I'm very deliberate. Like if I have a deadline on Friday, I will schedule two hours to work on the Friday deadline on Monday, 30 minutes to review like.
My calendar looks crazier than it did when I was in corporate America because like I need to just make sure that I'm showing up where I need to be. And so I think those two things, the macro of like having the. Larger like mental health support to like see and visualize myself being successful, I think is the big piece.
But I think the habits and the day-to-day pieces are just as important. Because absolutely when you don't like those days where your calendar has a four hour gap in it just breathe that negative thinking of like, oh. You know, I have a four hour gap. I, I, I [00:21:00] should be getting a client, I should be talking to someone.
You know, what if that four hour gap now says, one hour write 10 LinkedIn posts for me to bank, or one hour call, three new people to, you know, for business development, it doesn't seem as daunting. And so, you know, I mean, it's the same start. Small, small steps. The journey
Claire Hayek: and you know, I mean we, I'm sure maybe many entrepreneurs also listening to this can, everybody comes up with their own ways to cope, to do, to deal with it and it's experience.
It literally, it took me years to understand that, you know, that. How to manage my calendar. I have, I, I have it color coded. Like for me it just needs to be colored. 'cause I'm visual. My brain works that way, very right brain. And I, I need to see colors like, okay, I know the green is client, anything that is sales.
The yellow is internal admin, the, you know, so I'm like, it's too much yellow, not enough green, what's happening? Right, right, [00:22:00] right. Yeah. And, and, and, and sometimes, you know, some weeks it's, it varies, but then you look at the month, you're like, oh, it's pretty balanced. So. It's, I mean, and I love your example as well, and I think it's good to talk about these things, but.
It took me time to understand that, and yes, it took me a coach and please get a coach if you're out there wondering. Get a coach. We all need coaches and what I always say is the coach is that person that's you. You are kind of like a, a, um, a tan with a label. You can't read your own label. The coach can read, somebody else can read your label. So you need that coach. You need that person can read your label. So, uh, we all need it. Tony Robbins has a coach. Freaking, everybody has a Exactly. Athletes have coaches. It's the same way for entrepreneurs. Why wouldn't you have a coach? Uh, uh, Leslie, this has been so interesting and time.
Flying. But I definitely wanna get to the rapid fire. Sure. I have three questions for you. 30 seconds if we can. [00:23:00] Okay. Let's, uh, go for it. You ready? Yep. Okay. Give us maybe a book, a talk, a podcast conference that changed how you lead.
Lesley Pinckney: Um,
how I lead, oh a team of rivals by Darris Kearns Goodwin. It's the story of, uh, Abraham Lincoln's rise and how he built his cabinet on a team of rivals. Um, it's the single best book on leadership you'll ever read, hands down. Nice.
Claire Hayek: Nice. Okay. One daily practice that keeps you grounded.
Lesley Pinckney: I'm not gonna lie on, on camera and say that I do it every day, but 15 minutes of Tai chi is usually how I like to start my day.
Claire Hayek: Oh, wow. Very cool. A hard truth about authenticity. What do we need to know?
Lesley Pinckney: Uh, people aren't gonna like it all the time. Um, better you're someone that if you're someone that doesn't. [00:24:00] Like that, you know, needs to be liked all the time, then that's probably gonna be a a lot more challenging for you seeing note one about the therapist.
Um, yeah. But yeah, it's, it's a challenge.
Claire Hayek: It's a challenge. You need to be comfortable with yourself. You need to be grounded, you need to be focused, and you definitely, you need to have enough mental fitness in order to be authentic because otherwise you're just really just. You're looking for approval outside of you.
Correct. You're not grounded. Right. Um, and this is not a judgment, it is just, it's just normal when you think about it. When somebody's aligned and coherent and sees their values, understand who they are, that authenticity is automatic. You're not even trying to be authentic. Exactly. Actually, when you try to be authentic, you're already like.
Lesley Pinckney: Right. And I also, I also think that like authenticity has kind of taken on this like brash and rudeness. It doesn't have to be that way. No, no. Different ways that authenticity can show up. It can be nurturing, it [00:25:00] can be, you know, it can be comforting. It can, you know, like absolutely. I do wanna dispel the dispel that kind of narrative, which seems to be getting increasingly attached to authenticity.
There's a course right. To it, but I don't think that's necessarily true.
Claire Hayek: That's, that's being, being harsh, honest, transparent to the point where you're just not have no empathy and no, not enough emotional intelligence or positive intelligence for what. To be able to recognize, maybe put on that little filter, not to lie, but just to be a bit more sensitive towards maybe how somebody can feel about certain things.
Mm-hmm. So being authentic is also saying, Hey, I'm not really sure how to say this and I really don't wanna hurt your feelings, but I really feel that maybe I could be wrong, but. Da da da da da da. And it's bothering me and I don't know how to deal with it Exactly. So that's being authentic, admitting that you don't know how to talk about it.
Yep. It's that [00:26:00] simple. It's not about being harsh, and I'm so glad you brought this up, Leslie, because that's a good point. That's such a good point. It's a lot of people like, yeah, but that's like rude and no in, and No, no. When you're being, when you're grounded you're focused, you're clear, Matt, you're a good leader inside and out.
And you've worked on yourself, you cannot be rude. There's no way. Being authentic is not about that at all. But anyway. This has been really interesting. Anybody listening or watching us here, if you want tools to stay calm under pressure to be clear minded, please do scan the code you see here on the screen.
Join, uh, the Mental Fitness Masterclass. It's basically ready for you. It is evergreen. You can watch it whenever you want, and I promise you it's gonna help you. Get through your leadership, day to day. And, if you are not watching a video, do check the comments and make sure that, you look for that code.
It's usually my link [00:27:00] tree link, and it's got everything in there. Also includes a lot of freebies and resources you can download, including my book, and finally, please hit that follow and hit that subscribe. And if you find this episode help to you and you think of somebody that needs to hear this and need to listen to this episode, please do share.
'cause that's why we're here. That's why we're taking the time to do it, because that's how you add value is by sharing and also. If we're learning things, we've learned things, maybe we've failed. If we're not sharing that with you. So what are we doing then? Right, Leslie? Exactly right on that. Leslie, any final words before we wrap up here?
Lesley Pinckney: No. Thank you so much for having me. For those people that are interested in learning more about what I do, you can find me on LinkedIn. If you wanna learn about my musical pro activities, you can find me on Spotify. Also the website, the Big Idea Catalyst. And, um, thank you again for having me.
This has been great.
Claire Hayek: Love this. [00:28:00] So please do check the comments as well for this information. And as always, lead boldly, stay human and turn every challenge into a gift. We'll see you next week. Thanks so much, Leslie. Bye everyone. Bye.