What if your need to be liked is actually holding your team back? In this powerful episode, Claire Hayek sits down with Kim Klemballa—Head of Marketing for CoinDesk Data and Indices, brand strategist, and board member for Empower Women That Rock. Kim pulls back the curtain on the internal shift that changed everything: replacing people-pleasing with purpose. Together, they unpack the mindset traps that keep high-achieving women stuck in performance mode, and how to lead with clarity when your role demands both influence and execution. Whether you’re managing a team, scaling a business, or rethinking your leadership voice—this episode is your permission slip to drop the facade and lead with unapologetic alignment.
00:00 – Intro: When likeability gets in the way
04:12 – Kim’s turning point: “It’s not about being liked”
08:40 – The corporate trap of performative leadership
12:30 – How she resets under pressure (with 3 kids and a big job)
16:45 – Navigating career shifts and layoffs
21:10 – Letting go of overexplaining
25:30 – Aligning with what actually matters
28:50 – Claire’s reflection: respect over approval
32:00 – Final takeaways: How to lead with less noise and more power
Follow Claire on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/clairehayek/
Follow Kim on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kim-klemballa-80101812/
EWTR LinkedIN: https://www.linkedin.com/company/empower-women-that-rock-inc/
EWTR Website: https://www.womenrock.world/
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Stop Trying to Be Liked — Start Getting Things Done with Kim Klemballa
Claire Hayek: [00:00:00] Have you ever been afraid that someone on your team might not like you? Maybe you tone down your feedback, softened your message, or hesitated to push harder, all in the name of keeping the peace. Today's episode will challenge that instinct because sometimes the most respected leaders.
Aren't the most liked, they're the most consistent, clear, and courageous.
Claire Hayek: Welcome to the NeuroLeadership Edge, the show where we explore the science of leadership and the art of showing up as your boldest self. I'm your host, Claire Hayek, founder of Mind, soul Purpose Team building. X engineer, lifelong musician, TEDx speaker, and uh, I'm really excited to be here with you and talk about neuroscience and give you tools behind [00:01:00] performance, mindset, and modern leadership in this episode.
You are gonna learn why your brain is wired to crave approval and how to reprogram that instinct. And you're gonna learn how to lead with clarity even when your decisions are unpopular. And the one story that helped my guest redefine success, respect, and bold leadership. My guest today is Kim Kalala, head of marketing for CoinDesk Data and Indices, a brand strategist and a board member for Empower Women That Rock with two decades in finance and digital assets.
Kim is known for executing complex global launches and building scalable marketing infrastructures, but beyond her professional success. Kim's story is about courage, about learning that being respected matters more than being light, and that clarity sometimes means not pleasing [00:02:00] everyone. Kim, how are you?
Hi. Thanks so much for having me. Oh my God. I am, uh, really excited about this one. I mean, who wants to talk about that, right? Nobody wants to, to talk about, and this is why this podcast is all about bold leadership, having the conversations that people probably avoid, and the whole point is just to unpack certain things that might cause stress for people and just.
Humanize it a bit more and see, see basically how it can help our listeners today. So without further ado, Kim, let's start with that pivotal story. What happened that day?
Kim Klemballa: Sure. So yes. Let me tell you a quick story of a compliment that changed my life. Uh, so 10 plus years ago, or, or even longer, I was running the marketing of NPR content for this, uh, this ETF launch.
And I was working [00:03:00] with several different teams of which many I didn't manage directly. Through a few things that had happened, we fell very behind on the launch, and typically you can chalk issues up to two things. Is it a process issue or is it. A person or people issue, and you always want to try the process issue first is, you know, there a communication process with, you know, how, how we're handling things.
And in this case it ended up coming down to someone's team and, and team member that was, uh, was blocking some things. Mm-hmm. So some tough. Calls had to be made with some of the managers and my counterparts, but at the end of the day, we had a very successful launch, which no one thought we were gonna actually execute on time.
And I'll never forget the manager whose team went into a bit of disarray from all of this, uh, [00:04:00] called me up and he said. I don't like you, but I respect what you did. And I wanna repeat that 'cause it was a defining moment and I'll chat a little about that. But he said, once again, I don't like you, but I respect what you did.
And in that moment, I realize I don't have to be liked. I have a job to get done. And don't get me wrong, I want to be liked. I, I like being liked, but at the end of the day. There's a job to get done, and if you have a blocker, you either have to go around it or go through it.
Claire Hayek: I mean, I love that sentence.
I love it. Obviously confrontational, but focused, clear and authentic and basically completely reshaped how you lead because it speaks to the difference between approval and respect from a neuroscience perspective. Our brains are wired to avoid rejection, right? I mean, nobody may, [00:05:00] nobody even wants to talk about it.
The same regions that actually process. Social pain, they light up as if we're physically hurt when we're being rejected. If you can just imagine that. But high performing leaders, uh, like you learn to pretty much quiet that system, that, that brings that pain forward. You shifted from, I need them to like me, to, I need to lead effectively.
So let's keep going. So what changed in how you approach people and projects since then?
Kim Klemballa: I always start from a, a project side, I think it's always important to start at the end, like, what are your intended outcomes? 'cause if you don't know what your intended outcomes are and, and what you want to have happen as a result, it's hard to figure out how to get there. It's, it's like, you don't just start.
If, if you have a destination, you plug into the map how you're gonna get [00:06:00] there, and there's many different routes. So once you know what the end outcome is, you figure out how to get there. And from the lessons I've learned as far as, getting there, it's having the right process, having the right people, and building a path.
Working through issues and resolving them in a way, but, but still always maintaining focus on that outcome and cutting out the noise around you that might block or deter you from getting there.
Claire Hayek: Right? I mean, by focusing on where are we heading? What needs to be done needs to be done to get there within reason, obviously.
So you've, you've kind of advised circle back to that comment and how that shaped you in a way. Is that you trained your brain to handle discomfort, uh, instead of avoiding it for the mere reason, just to get to, to get people to the end result because you're taking responsibility and you're asking people to trust you and you're handling [00:07:00] it, that, you know, I'm gonna get it done.
I got you. You might not like some things I do, but I'm doing this for you. I really, I mean, I really truly respect that. It's, it's very inspiring. But let's talk about. Actually another moment. You mentioned, uh uh, earlier the conversation you overheard as a young professional where women said you couldn't have both a career and kids.
How did that influence you?
Kim Klemballa: That was, it was a very long time ago. Uh, but, but yes, and it wasn't, you know, directed at me. It was just women in leadership talking about the struggles with that. And I think as a society, like we've come a long way to empower women, which is, you know what? The association empower women.
That rock is about like empowering one another. But it is, it's always a bit of a struggle. 'cause if you are, if you're in one place, you can't be in the other. And there's almost this guilt [00:08:00] with you that you have to release. So to answer your question hearing that made me think no, I I can do it.
You love the talent, I'm gonna prove them wrong. So I, I do, I have I have three, I have three little kids. And it's not, it's not easy. I'm not going to say, you know, it's, it's all great, but, you know, they, they wake up healthy and I count my blessings. And I think the key to managing, uh, the work and the life and achieving some form of balance and whatever that looks like is about, organization, like staying organized, staying on task.
Uh, knowing what you have to achieve each day in longer term and, and how you can get there. So it's, it's similar to like maintaining that path, although I will tell you if, if you went downstairs to. My house. It is, it is a path of destruction.
Claire Hayek: I think a lot of people can relate to that. I mean, parents out there listening to this, the professionals that are [00:09:00] parents.
Um, I think, I think also you, you said something that was a long time ago, and you're absolutely right, but it, it, it was, it is something that shaped a lot of us, a lot of women. That took that as a challenge instead of rebelling from anger. Where we took that and rewired rewired our brains for, we can do this and challenge the status quo and challenge the either or mentality and build the both and mentality or neuro pathway.
And, and you did it through action. You did it, you rewired your brain through action, you just. Did it. And the thing is, uh, maybe now it's another challenge that we might be facing, not just as women, just as human beings. I mean, there's a lot of disruption with ai. There's a lot of talk about a lot of stuff and the new ways of doing things, the workplace.
What is it gonna look like for the future generation and even your kids right now? You know, it's, uh, it's very disruptive [00:10:00] and I think. Bringing those lessons from, at the time it was that, but now it's something else. But having that neural pathway that knows to challenge it and just go with it and just take action.
You are better equipped to tackle on any challenge, any disruption, going forward. And let me tell you, I'm, I'm, I don't have kids, but I, I have so much respect for parents for. For moms and dads and it is a big job. It's a big job and I, I mean, I respect that a lot and having a career and, having kids, it's, um, it's no easy feat.
And I think a lot of women also, and dads, you know, there's a lot of stay home dads as well. Feel that way. We don't talk that about that enough anymore, but, um, but I'm glad we're kind of mentioning it. And the chaos downstairs, that's chaos. Very authentic. I love it. I'm not gonna sugarcoat it. And that's what we do here.
No [00:11:00] sugarcoating, that's for sure. So, okay, let's, uh, let's move on here. You also talked about learning patience, especially in leadership meetings, and I think a lot of people listening might go, might be going, oh my God, the meeting of the meeting for the meeting. That was the meeting, and then here we go.
Right. Tell me what have you learned?
Kim Klemballa: Sure. So I can I, I could, I could say that the three things I've learned just from. Or, or three things. I, I, I wish someone would've given me as, as advice, maybe. Right? And the first is, is about patience. Like li listen, listen with intent to learn, have patience, sometimes.
You, you wanna say something or you, you wanna do something and maybe you do it a little too quick or you do it without fully understanding things. And I think it's important before you jump to something, to take a step back [00:12:00] and evaluate. So the first one in there would be patience. And, and, and so there, there's a lot going through my mind right now.
So, we'll, we'll see where this lands. The next one I'd say is, how do I say this? More isn't always meaningful. We try to take on so much and doing more doesn't always mean like, like I said, it's meaningful. It's, it's not always quantity. It's a quality behind it. Right. And it's good to look if you had 50 things to do, if you didn't do some.
Would that be okay? Or are there, or are there things that are being neglected that you should do more of? So, so when you look at all the things you do, what's the most meaningful? And that's where the time should go. And then I'd say the, the other thing is is to build meaningful connections, like connects with people and, and once again, not everyone's gonna like you, but you'll find people to connect with.
And there's a really good quote, I think [00:13:00] Porter Gale said it. It's, um. Your network is your net worth. Right. I really like that because it's a lot of it's about build meaningful connections and find those people and stay in touch with them.
Claire Hayek: Thank you for sharing these so relevant.
And I think these are great reminders. A lot of us sometimes forget, you know, or take for granted in a way. And definitely the, the, uh, the quality of, you know, not more. You know, I, I always, I always say less is more, just sometimes we're trying just the simplest things, simple task, and we're like, oh my God, we're beefing it up and we're going crazy, putting all this pressure.
Let's just simplify it. Let's just peel off all this, noise and what are we trying to do? Keep it simple. Less is more. That was one of the things that really affected me in my earlier professional years as a leader. My boss then at the [00:14:00] time. Would say it a lot. And that really stayed with me, so that really resonated with me.
It's just such a great reminder. Thanks for sharing that. So here we go. We're, um, up to the rapid fire questions. Oh. Uh, we have a bit of time, so it doesn't have to be short. Short. Okay. But, you know, we can elaborate a little bit if you want. All right. You ready? Yes, let's go. A book or podcast or a conference that really helped you or rewired how you lead.
Kim Klemballa: Uh, like the first thing that comes to my mind, because I, I actually think about this book a lot and you know, the children, you know, I, I read it to them, is, is The Giving Tree
Claire Hayek: Can you tell us a little bit about this, because now I'm really intrigued.
So it's, it's a children's book, right? But what is, what is it, storyline?
Kim Klemballa: It's, it's, it's about, it's about a, a boy who's, you know. Has a tree and he keeps asking the tree for things, and the tree gives him, you know, the [00:15:00] leaves and then the branches and then the trunk. And as the boy gets older and at the very end it's just a stump.
And the old, the boy who's now an old man just, just sits on it and yeah, it's a nice story. And there's, I think there's like a lot of concepts there. And from a child side. There, there's one concept of, of giving, but as an adult there, there's a few other concepts there of of, of taking.
Like one sided. So I, I think of that story a lot from like a few different concepts.
Claire Hayek: There's no right or wrong answer here, and I love the fact that you're bringing something completely different.
I love the authenticity of your message. And so let's unpack this though. 'cause now I'm really intrigued. I get it. I get the story. What, how did that affect you when you read that story? How does it affect you as a leader? Well, it, what has that taught you?
Kim Klemballa: I think as far [00:16:00] as the leadership goes, I think it's about giving and encouraging and, and listening from that side as a leader.
Like, like you always wanna be there. You always wanna be listening and give like for that. Um, and then at some point you also wanna make sure you, you get something.
Claire Hayek: It's a give and take kind of thing. It's a two-way relationship basically. Yes. So that, this is great. All right.
I love it. I learned something new today. But let me tell you, I'm a big fan. Of kids' movies. I mean, I love those things. I can watch animated movies. Like I love the music. I, I will learn the whole soundtrack by heart that that's my little secret.
But, uh, all right. Let's, uh, let me ask you the second question, the best advice you've ever received in one sentence, if you can.
Kim Klemballa: There's a lot of advice. So once I'm just, the first thing that comes to my head is, um. If you're the smartest person at the table, you're at the wrong table. Ah, yeah, I love that
Claire Hayek: one.[00:17:00]
Kim Klemballa: So from a professional stance, it just goes to show you don't wanna be the smartest person in the room. You just wanna keep learning and building and growing. So it's important to surround yourself with people that are smarter than you, to always continue to humble yourself and grow. A
Claire Hayek: hundred percent.
Couldn't agree more. And uh, the third one, if you could define leadership in one word, what would it be?
Kim Klemballa: Intent. Intent. Like lead. Lead with intent. And know what that intent is. And then I'd also say patience, but the, the one word would be would be intent.
Claire Hayek: Intent. And that's presence. And that's, that's. Pretty much what I preach all the time, and I try to apply all the time is we need to be present.
And when you're present, you do have intent. Everything you say has intent because you are completely there and, uh, you're, you're, you know, you're not just being surrounded by, you are gonna be surrounded by chaos, but in the midst of the chaos and the [00:18:00] disruption, you are anchored and grounded and you're just, whew.
Intent is right there. I I truly love that. Thank you so much, Kim. And thank you for reminding us that most importantly, that leadership isn't about being liked, right? It's about being aligned and you taught us that, you know, it's you could have that clarity, you can have that intent and, um, be kind.
And patient is power, right? And boldness. You are very bold. I think you're the example of what Bold is. And I, I mean, I'm so happy that you joined this, uh, this episode and shared your experience with us. And, um, and one thing maybe we should keep in mind that boldness sometimes looks like being misunderstood for a while and not being scared.
And, you know, I think if I, if I would say one thing. Don't be scared to be bold and be the odd one in the room maybe, or the one that is looked at. It's not everybody's bestie and [00:19:00] pleasing everyone. And that's okay. It just makes the brains uncomfortable. People are not used to it, but if you're aligned, you are authentic, you're patient and you're kind, they're gonna see you.
They're just, they're gonna see you. Definitely. And I mean, here's the proof. So, so if today's conversation resonated with you. Please take a moment to rate the NeuroLeadership Edge on Apple Podcast ads, uh, podcasts or Spotify, whatever platform you are using. It really helps more, uh, more of our listeners and more leaders to, to find this work.
And if you want to, um, go deeper. Into training your brain for clarity, for courage, for presence, for intent, and, uh, not being afraid of being bold and being more courageous. Join my masterclass. Step into your power mental fitness. Uh, you'll find all the information by scanning the QR code that you see here.
And if you're listening on audio, it will be in the description. Please [00:20:00] follow. Please subscribe. Please share this episode. Whoever you think needs to hear this, maybe somebody's struggling and maybe they feel that there are the outsider in the room. I think this would be a great one for somebody that is is unease with their boldness.
Please do share with your network as necessary. Now, Kim, any last words to our listeners here,
Kim Klemballa: just thank you so much for having me. I, I really appreciate it. And you know, we, we do have the association empower women that rock for women that have similar, uh, thoughts they wanna share, or things they wanna talk about, or, or if there's any struggles.
And of, of course, like men can chat with us too. Uh, so empower women. That rock is on LinkedIn and Instagram and there's a website so that you can check it out there.
Claire Hayek: Great, and we will be putting the links to empower women that rock in the description. We'll be sharing that for, um, for our listeners.
But please do [00:21:00] connect with me, uh, all my socials are under this QR code and connect with Kim. We'd love to hear from you. Until next time, remember, you don't have to be liked to be respected. Okay, let's, let's remember that everyone and stable stay kind and keep leading with. Your heart and your mentally fit brain.
All right, and we'll see you uh, very soon. Bye for now. Bye, Kim. Thank you so much.